Zakaluk_Carol_20171118_session1

Columbia Oral History MA Program
Amy Starecheski, Interviewer

 

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00:00:00 - Introductions

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Partial Transcript: At one point her paternal grandparents lived across the street on the east corner. Carol was named after her grandfather, Karel, which was a German-Dutch name. His parents decided they would leave Berlin and start a new life in Holland, so they went to a rural area and set up their family there and opened a toy store. The children were very popular because of the toy store, it was a very happy childhood. The parents told each kid when they turned 16/17 that it was time to get a job and make sure that they could earn their own money. Carol's grandfather decided to be a journeyman upholsterer, when he was 24 he immigrated to the USA. Carol shares a picture of a family gathering, Amy is struck by the size of the family. When Karel arrives in the US, he has no family and he goes to work temporarily at the post office because he doesn't have a lot of work as an upholsterer. At the post office he meets Harriet, who he later marries. Amy is struck at the resemblance between Harriet, Carol's grandmother, and Carol's daughter. Carol notes that she, her mother, her daughter and her grandmother all look very similar.

Harriet was born in the Bronx from a family of 10 children (5 boys and 5 girls), 9 of the children were born in Brooklyn. Harriet's family tried living in the Bronx for a time, but didn't like it because there were too many hills and they went back to Brooklyn. Harriet's parents were from Germany, immigrated in the 1880s. The children were all humorous, and they all stayed in NYC and raised their families except for one who moved to Southhampton, Long Island and didn't have any children. He was the only one who lived near the ocean, which the family loved. Carol remembers visiting her great uncle Charlie in Southhampton with great fondness, they would spend two weeks there in the summer. All the family would come for the summer trip. Most artifacts in her house are from her grandparents (both maternal and paternal) and their families. Carol shares a picture of Harriet's parent's wedding anniversary at Felzmans restaurant with all of the great aunts and uncles present. Felzmans was the site of many family gatherings due to it's close proximity to their home in Sunset Park. Of all of those 10 great aunts and uncles, only one of them finished high school because of the Great Depression. The one who finished high school, worked for Bell Telephone company and did very well.

Karel and Harriet got married in Manhattan, he was 14 years older than her. Thier wedding dinner was on 56th Street in Manhattan. They lived together on East 88th street, in a predominantly German neighborhood. Eventually they had Clara, Carol's mother and Clara spent the first 3 years of her life on E88th. Karel did upholstery for the big hotels in Manhattan, like the Astor. He was a very good artist. Worked with a lady named Elsie Niemeyer, a seamstress who helped with curtains. She lived in the basement of the house next door to Carol's current house in the Bertine Block, she cooked for a graphic designed named Sterling S. Sterling who was known for his etchings and plaques. When Sterling Sterling decided he was almost dying, and he wanted to pass the house on to somebody, he let Carol's mother have first right of refusal for buying the house, and she wound up buying the house next door. Carol's current house was also bought by Karel, who learned about it's availablity via Elsie Niemeyer, moved to the Bronx in 1921 and have been there ever since.

In addition to Clara, Karel and Harriet had two other children - Mary and Robert. Clara and Mary were very good at school and Karel was a strict parent. Clara went on to be a teacher, and went to Julia Richmond High School, then Hunter College which at the time was for a girls college. Mary went to Vassar and studied psychology. Robert was a sensitive boy, enjoyed poetry and English. Unfortunately, Robert committed suicide at 15, and was found by Clara. Clara didn't tell her own children about his suicide until they passed the age the age at which he committed suicide. Harriet would suggest he died of a disease whenever asked about him. Carol wonders if he was gay. Mary was heartbroken, never lost her stutter after that. She ended up marrying a chemist after she graduated from Vassar and became a secretary in the Chemistry dept. at Princeton. She ended up moving to California and Carol would spend two weeks a year with them.

00:06:02 - Harriet and Karel Boekhoff (The Maternal side)

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Partial Transcript: At one point her paternal grandparents lived across the street on the east corner. Carol was named after her grandfather, Karel, which was a German-Dutch name. His parents decided they would leave Berlin and start a new life in Holland, so they went to a rural area and set up their family there and opened a toy store. The children were very popular because of the toy store, it was a very happy childhood. The parents told each kid when they turned 16/17 that it was time to get a job and make sure that they could earn their own money. Carol's grandfather decided to be a journeyman upholsterer, when he was 24 he immigrated to the USA. Carol shares a picture of a family gathering, Amy is struck by the size of the family. When Karel arrives in the US, he has no family and he goes to work temporarily at the post office because he doesn't have a lot of work as an upholsterer. At the post office he meets Harriet, who he later marries. Amy is struck at the resemblance between Harriet, Carol's grandmother, and Carol's daughter. Carol notes that she, her mother, her daughter and her grandmother all look very similar.

Harriet was born in the Bronx from a family of 10 children (5 boys and 5 girls), 9 of the children were born in Brooklyn. Harriet's family tried living in the Bronx for a time, but didn't like it because there were too many hills and they went back to Brooklyn. Harriet's parents were from Germany, immigrated in the 1880s. The children were all humorous, and they all stayed in NYC and raised their families except for one who moved to Southhampton, Long Island and didn't have any children. He was the only one who lived near the ocean, which the family loved. Carol remembers visiting her great uncle Charlie in Southhampton with great fondness, they would spend two weeks there in the summer. All the family would come for the summer trip. Most artifacts in her house are from her grandparents (both maternal and paternal) and their families. Carol shares a picture of Harriet's parent's wedding anniversary at Felzmans restaurant with all of the great aunts and uncles present. Felzmans was the site of many family gatherings due to it's close proximity to their home in Sunset Park. Of all of those 10 great aunts and uncles, only one of them finished high school because of the Great Depression. The one who finished high school, worked for Bell Telephone company and did very well.

Karel and Harriet got married in Manhattan, he was 14 years older than her. Thier wedding dinner was on 56th Street in Manhattan. They lived together on East 88th street, in a predominantly German neighborhood. Eventually they had Clara, Carol's mother and Clara spent the first 3 years of her life on E88th. Karel did upholstery for the big hotels in Manhattan, like the Astor. He was a very good artist. Worked with a lady named Elsie Niemeyer, a seamstress who helped with curtains. She lived in the basement of the house next door to Carol's current house in the Bertine Block, she cooked for a graphic designed named Sterling S. Sterling who was known for his etchings and plaques. When Sterling Sterling decided he was almost dying, and he wanted to pass the house on to somebody, he let Carol's mother have first right of refusal for buying the house, and she wound up buying the house next door. Carol's current house was also bought by Karel, who learned about it's availablity via Elsie Niemeyer, moved to the Bronx in 1921 and have been there ever since.

In addition to Clara, Karel and Harriet had two other children - Mary and Robert. Clara and Mary were very good at school and Karel was a strict parent. Clara went on to be a teacher, and went to Julia Richmond High School, then Hunter College which at the time was for a girls college. Mary went to Vassar and studied psychology. Robert was a sensitive boy, enjoyed poetry and English. Unfortunately, Robert committed suicide at 15, and was found by Clara. Clara didn't tell her own children about his suicide until they passed the age the age at which he committed suicide. Harriet would suggest he died of a disease whenever asked about him. Carol wonders if he was gay. Mary was heartbroken, never lost her stutter after that. She ended up marrying a chemist after she graduated from Vassar and became a secretary in the Chemistry dept. at Princeton. She ended up moving to California and Carol would spend two weeks a year with them.

Hyperlink: Karel Boekhoff’s mother, of Winschoten, Holland (born Clare Groenhoff, in Germany)
Hyperlink: Karel Boekhoff’s father, of Winschoten, Holland (born Hinderikus Boekhoff, in Germany)
Hyperlink: Karel Boekhoff, Carol’s maternal grandfather. Born 1882, Winschoten, Holland. Arrived in the US in 1906
Hyperlink: Karel’s family. This was taken during a family reunion in Holland, on a rare trip back to Europe for Karel. Karel is top row, 4th in from the right.
Hyperlink: Karel’s family. Karel is top row, 2nd in from the right.
Hyperlink: Harriet Thaens, (Carol’s maternal grandmother) at age 20. Born 1896 in NYC. Birth name Anna Harriet Boekhoff, but she later preferred and used the name Harriet.
Hyperlink: Harriet Thaens, seated.
Hyperlink: Harriet and Karel Boekhoff in Pelham Bay Park, Bronx, 1917, married 3 months. Karel is on the right, Harriet in the middle. Man on left is an unnamed friend.
Hyperlink: Harriet Thaens (left) and her sister, Eva Thaens (right)
Hyperlink: Eva Thaens (left) and her sister Harriet Thaens (right)
Hyperlink: Harriet Thaens weds Karel Boekhoff, 1917
Hyperlink: Wedding menu for Harriet and Karel’s wedding, 1917
Hyperlink: Harriet Boekhoff 2/3/1938
Hyperlink: Charles and Mary Thaens’ Golden Anniversary keepsake folder from Felzmann’s Restaurant
Hyperlink: Menu for golden anniversary, plus photo of 1890 wedding of Charles and Mary Thaens
Hyperlink: Mary Holtz marries Charles Thaens (Carol’s maternal great-grandparents), 1890
Hyperlink: Charles and Mary Thaens’ (Harriet’s parents’) Golden Anniversary photo: Charles Thaens and Mary Holtz were married in 1890. Present are their children Helen (b. 1862), Charles (b. 1894), Harriet (b. 1896), Fred (b. 1897), Henry (b. 1899), Elsie (b. 1900), Eva (b. 1902), Rudy (b. 1905), and Elise (known as “Lee,” b. 1907). The eldest child, William (b. 1890) was deceased at the time of this photo.
Hyperlink: Sterling Sterling’s graphics work, 50th Birthday gift to Karel
Hyperlink: Another example of graphics work by Sterling Sterling, “penman”
Hyperlink: Karel, Harriet, toddler Clara and infant Mary Boekhoff on May 15, 1921
Hyperlink: Harriet Boekhoff and a very young Clara Boekhoff (with hair bow)
Hyperlink: From the left: Mary, Robert, and Clara Boekhoff on Feb. 3, 1938
Hyperlink: Robert Boekhoff gradutates from Clark Jr. High School, 1938
Hyperlink: Robert Boekhoff, playing croquet, 7/23/37, in Stonybrook, Long Island
Hyperlink: Mary Boekhoff, graduating from Vassar
Hyperlink: David & Mary Todd, and from the left: Denise (Brian’s wife), Brian, Cliff, Ray, and Becca Todd
Hyperlink: Earlier photo of four David Todd children: Becca, Brian, Raymond, Clifford
Hyperlink: Clara Boekhoff, graduating from Hunter College
Hyperlink: Karel Boekhoff’s union-type group of local craftspeople, with a storefront on 138th St. in Mott Haven. Karel is on top, 3rd from left.
Hyperlink: Bertine Block in 1891. Named for the developer, Edward Bertine, who lived in house # 416.
Hyperlink: 420 E. 136th St., within the Bertine Block, in the 1920s or 1930s
00:42:08 - Michael and Anastasia Zakaluk (The Paternal side)

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Partial Transcript: One day, when Clara was 16 she was visiting a friend who lived on 100th Street. Clara loved sweets and walking, when she arrives at her friend's block there are neighbors on the street and she offers her candy to people. One of the people she offers some to is Carol's father who was 15 at the time. He notices there are exactly enough pieces of candy to go around to the people standing in the group but none for her. Carol's father thinks that she is very generous, and they start dating. Their first date was roller skating in Central Park, and they went to a camp in the Delaware Water Gap (Camp Karmic) for young adults. Clara briefly falls in love with another man at the camp, a prospective doctor named Klaus, but his parents disapprove because she was not affluent enough - so in the end Stephen Zakaluk wins Clara's heart.

His parents were Michael Zakaluk and Anastasia Zakaluk (maiden name: Fedychenskaya), they were both from Ukraine from towns not far from each other but near Lvov but they didn't meet until they arrived in the US. Anastasia was one of many children, and her brothers were often sent off to conflicts and she suddenly finds herself as the eldest child. Family expects her to marry and older man in the village and better their situation, she refuses and goes alone to America via a boat leaving from Germany. When she arrived, a woman claimed she was her cousin so that she could get in and Anastasia ended up looking after her children and doing the cooking. Michael Zakaluk had also come alone and spent his first night In America on a park bench in Central Park. They end up getting married, and set up a Ukrainian grocery store in the Ukrainian area of the Lower East Side which is where Carol's father grew up. And not only did they sell groceries but they also supplied all of the local Ukrainian churches, and there were many, with holiday fare. Anastasia was an excellent cook, and in time when Carol's mother lived across the street from Anastasia and next door to Harriet - she never had to cook turkey because her grandmother in law and mother would be right there to do it instead. Michael, Carol's grandfather, was always on the lookout for areas they could relocate the store to in the event that they got priced out of the Lower East Side, which is how they came to settle on East 100th Street. They lived on East 100th Street until Carol's parents got married when they were in their twenties.

Hyperlink: Clara and Steve’s first date—roller skating in Central Park. Approx. age = 15
Hyperlink: Michael and Anastasia Zakaluk’s wedding photo, Manhattan
Hyperlink: Michael Zakaluk plays chess at home, NW corner apt. building 136th & Willis, 3rd Floor
Hyperlink: Stephen and Clara Zakaluk’s wedding photo, Bronx
00:59:07 - Carol's childhood in Mott Haven

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Partial Transcript: Carol shows some pictures that illustrate the changes that Mott Haven has seen, with the arrival of the projects in 1961 (first Millbrook then Mitchell houses). Her brother and sister had a different experience of growing up in Mott Haven because it wasn't until 1948 that things started changing, and a lot of African-Americans started moving up from Harlem because there were big fires in Harlem which displaced a lot of people. And there was a large influx of people from Puerto Rico.

Carol's mom stopped teaching when Stevie was born, there was a long period in which they had less money because they were no longer a dual income household but the house was always fun when carol's mom was home. Because she was a teacher, they could all read very well by the time they went to school and excelled in reading and math. Stevie wanted to follow his father into the millitary and attend West Point. Karel and Harriet move across the street from Clara and Stephen to be closer to their eldest son, Karel Boekhoff died of TB the year after Carol was born and she was named after him. Her father wanted her to be named Coral because of his geology background but her mother pushed back. for 15 years Carol's father worked at Kollsman Instruments in Elmhurst, Queens as a mechanical engineer making altimeters for areoplanes which was a very active industry for a time, but eventually production took a downturn and 15% of the workforce was let go because there wasn't enough work. So after 15 years of being an engineer Carol's father switched to being a teacher, and both her parents worked at PS 30 (across from Brook Park at 141st & brook) - her mother ended up there for 20 years and her father was there for 10 before he was transferred to a school in Queens. They wrote lesson plans together. Her sister ended up attending Hunter High School, then Bryn Mawr, which was a very elite all first school. Her sister became a high school math teacher, and was teaching while Carol was at high school. She taught at Samuel Gompers which was very hard, Carol would visit her and had to wear pants and look like a teacher because it was an all boys school. Susan went on to be Director of Math for The City of New York. Stevie went to Bronx Science then he went to City College which was his choice. He couldn't get into West Point because he was too young. He was 15 when he went to college. did well at City College and joined ROTC because he wanted to be in the military and he did very well and immediately went in as a Second Lieutenant and later retired. All of the siblings attended PS. 43 for 1st through 3rd grade. When carol was in 2nd and 3rd grade the projects were built. Carol was scared of going to a new school, but ended up really enjoying it. She was in the top class. PS 31 was recently destroyed to make way for a large housing development. Carol attended a private high school because in the late 60s "all hell had broken loose". Clara did not want Carol to attend the public high school because a girl had been attacked by a cleaner in the school. She was able to get a scholarship and went to Rhodes school at 11 West 54th Street for three years. It was her gateway out of the Bronx during a turbulent period in the area. School was across the street from the MoMA, was very eye opening and "Manhattanized" her. The friends she made there offered a window into another life, she attended broadway shows and ate out at restaurants. She parents didn't have a lot of money, and they spent a lot of time at the library. She learned a lot at Rhodes High School. Decided that she wanted to try to go to one of the public specialized high schools andtook the test for Bronx Science and Music & Art. Considered being a vet, but wanted to have choices but her teachers made her chose so she chose Music and Art. Her mother loved music and was very happy she got into Music and Art (now known as LaGuardia High school) and from there graduated with three degrees: the Music degree, the regents diploma and the regular diploma.

Carol's parents lived very happily in Mott Haven for a long time, until their retirement. At that point, Clara's great uncle who lived in Southampton was quite elderly, so Clara would go out to Long Island to look after him. In his will he wrote that they would be able to buy his house for half price, which they did and they moved from the South Bronx to Southhampton. Carol used her inheritance form Uncle Charlie to backpack through Canada and see the world at 21 after she graduated.

01:33:49 - New York to San Francisco via Canada

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Partial Transcript: Wanted to go to library school, parents told her they wouldn't help pay for grad school because they hadn't done so for her older sister. At that point she decided she would travel across Canada and go to California. Her mum always spoke about how much she loved the Bay Area, her sister lived out there. Carol had fallen in love with a man who had moved to San Francisco which was also part of why she wanted to travel. Took her 9 months, wrote a book about it for National Novel Writers Month. Went across Canada with her friend from SUNY Binghamton, Renee Friedman who was very active in the women's movement. they stayed with friend of Renee's in Toronto who were lesbians and, people assumed she and Carol were a couple. They told them they weren't, but no one believed them. Learned of more places to go through the same group of people, went to Edmonton, Winnipeg, Saskatoon. Stayed for basements, couches, living rooms, porches. In the end, they only spent about three weeks cumulatively in youth hostels which allowed them to save money. Finally she went to Vancouver, asked for work and was immediately recognized as an American. Thinks she sounds more like a New Yorker now than she did then. Left Vancouver and headed to Seattle and visited her brother who was living in Colorado Springs at the time for a couple of weeks and then she went to San Francisco where she spent a total of five years. Loved San Fransisco

When she got out of college and left the Bronx, she never wanted to come back. Her goal was to work in publishing and live in Manhattan or Brooklyn, anywhere but the Bronx. That changed once she left SF, decided to come back to make the Bronx a better place. Also allowed her to come back to her family and where her educational achievements were more respected, as no one had heard of SUNY Binghampton in California. First job in SF was bookkeeper and assistant in a waterbed Factory Showroom. She learned a lot about business during that time. Later pivoted into publishing, working for Friends of the Earth Books as a Proofreader with the aim of becoming an editorial assistant. Also did some work in Graphic Design Department. Then moved to Proofreader for the San Francisco Bay Guardian, which she was the only proofreading position at that publication, and she was in line for the position of production manager when she discovered she was pregnant. The father was an English man who worked for CoEvolution Quarterly and was a "free love" person. He had st least two other lovers at the same time as Carol, and she fell in love with him and had to work to fall out of love with him. She felt settled enough in her life that she wanted to keep the child, even if it meant she would be a single parent.

01:57:53 - Moving back to the Bronx

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Partial Transcript: Lived next door to her daughter's father but it didn't work out and so she moved back to New York and move into the apartment in her grandmother's house that was available and pay her rent. Would also allow her to have some babysitting help, and have a happier environment because the whole saga had made her very unhappy. She made the apartment her own, she raised her daughter and helped out her grandmother. After some time she decided it was time to get back into dating, looked in the Village Voice and answered three ads - each date was funnier than the last, but no one she wanted to go further with. she planned to go out dancing with friends at Webster Hall because they had a band. No one knew what time the band was going on, her friend Pat introduced her to a man she had just met. Carol didn't think he was her type, but he worked for the band that was supposed to be playing and Pat encouraged Carol to call him to see what time the band was going to go on. So she called him and they weren't playing Webster Hall that night, but he asked her on a date. Carol said she and her daughter come as a package, which he was fine with. He was a sound engineer, which was good because she liked to travel. They have been together since 1984 and got married after 20 years together.

02:07:59 - Ending remarks

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Partial Transcript: After her parents moved to Uncle Charlie's house in Southhampton, they paid Carol $5 an hour to clean their stuff, which was a slow process because her daughter was in gifted programs. She was on the bus for hours everyday, and was editing freelance on the busses. Daughter was IQ tested and Carol had to justify taking her outside the neighborhood becane use she was the only white kid. She would accompany her husband if he was on the road for more than a month, she was well liked and it wasn't common for women to be on the road. Her daughter would stay with her grandparents and they doted on her.

Hyperlink: East 136th Street, looking NW from the stoop of 422 E. 136th St., with 3rd Ave. elevated train in the distance. The people are wedding attendees for the Lenyi family of 410 E. 136th St
Hyperlink: Clara’s grandma, Mary Thaens’ birthday, 1946, Felzmann’s Restaurant, Brooklyn
Hyperlink: Mary Thaens’ birthday, 1947, Felzmann’s Restaurant, Brooklyn. She is 78.
Hyperlink: Close-up of Mary Thaens cutting her birthday cake, 1947. She is 79.